January 2, 2013
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Stop Saying That!
A post for my fellow Christians
I don't know about you, but I hear people say, "I don't have a religion, I have a relationship" all the time. I went to a Baptist Bible College for my bachelor's degree and that was a really popular sentiment among the hip, young, Baptists back then. Probably still is for all I know! We were told things like, Catholicism is full of idolatry and Mary-worship, and those people are just doing rote memorization instead of forming their own thoughts, etc.
Fast forward to now. I'm Lutheran. In case you don't know, it's a closer sister to Catholicism than most Baptists are comfortable with. Why am I Lutheran? Well, lots of reasons. It was a decision Steven and I made after years of research. I was raised Southern Baptist and he was not raised a Christian at all, in fact, he didn't become a believer until high school. We got together at the aforementioned Baptist College. What happened? Well, Steven was majoring in Bible, and I had many Bible classes myself in conjunction with my counseling studies. We started talking, as we are wont to do, and discovered our own personal beliefs didn't quite mesh up with the Baptists. After a lot of time, studying, prayer, etc. we went Lutheran.
Is the Lutheran church perfect? Heck no. But neither is any church. After all, most churches, if correctly interpreting the Bible will tell you that people are not perfect. Do the math, folks. hehe.
Anyhoo, all this to say that as a Lutheran, we do many things differently than our Baptist cousins. We baptize our babies, we have communion every week, we use the Liturgy and have Divine Services. There are lots of traditions, there's lots of memorization, and, gasp, repetition! What are we thinking???
Have we given up our relationship for a RELIGION??I'd just like to point out that according to dictionary.com, religion is defined as:
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.According to that, my baptist friends, your relationship IS your religion.
BAM
Oh, and my non believing friends also have a religion, since religion is just defined as a set of beliefs about those things in particular.
BAMOH and guess what??? All that memorization and repetition, comes in darn handy when someone asks me what I believe and why. I don't have to worry about who thought it up, because it's based on the Bible, rooted in the Bible and passed down since Biblical times. And our Catholic cousins? Yes, we disagree on some points but their tree of faith is the roots that my church came from. Oh, and yours too.
So, in reference to the statement "I don't have a religion, I have a relationship", please, for the love of Pete, STOP SAYING THAT.
Comments (34)
I don't have either. Is that better?
I would never bash on anyone elses beliefs. Especially since I have none I currently believe in....
@armnatmom - no judgment here! Lol
I understand where you are coming from on this but I also understand the sentiment behind that quote about religion and relationship, even if it may not be quite accurate. Interesting post though.
I would not want to say either I am a Catholic, or an Evangelist, or a Methodist ... I just would say, I am a Christian, as with Christ! That would be enough. hehe ...
@appalolly - I think my point was that having a religion does not preclude you from having a relationship, and the idea that just because a religion is organized, it's automatically "not real" is annoying.
@SherryAngeLMysteriez - lots of people are that way, and I'm cool with that. I am proud to say I'm Lutheran.
Great post, Beth. You've expressed, succinctly, what friends and family of mine haved previously discussed--I wish I could get the point across as easily!
i love when you say BAM!
it makes me laugh for one...
and two. i can appreciate emphasis. and bam's great for that.
so was your heck no. lol.
i grew up mennonite. so people could see my denomination of choice coming down the street at them from a distance! and while i understood why there were those that had preconceived/mistaken ideas, hey! i had 'em about them
, i also wearied of that. because i had a relationship with my Lord and Saviour! not just a quaint way of life. a phrase used loosely by others, along with the word religion to describe what i had/was.
so heck yeah, for the love of pete, i've said it many times. never thinking through it like you've written or the definitions. great post. i remember reading somewhere that religion is what you do for HIM and relationship is about what He's already done for you. something earned vs receiving a gift.
i still have a card laying here for some special family in the ark...
sorry it's so late.
There are two things I have learned not to discuss in a bar or a blog....religion and politics. However, I respect your beliefs and your willingness to embrace them.
I like your bam emphasis too.... and yellow snail paper is a treat.
@appalolly - you pretty much said what i was thinking.
good thoughts Beth!
Do you think a lot of the response originates from where we've come from?
Like....if we grew up in a faith based community that felt very "religious", I think the tendancy to want to push the other way is so strong! We want to emphasize the relational part of it because we didn't maybe feel or hear about it as much as we felt was necessary.
I find myself saying, yes to so much of what you are expressing here. Having grown up Catholic and now going to a non denominational Christian church, I did embrace the relationship concept, but I dislike the division that can go on between various branches of the Christian faith. I think my upbringing taught me so much, and also kept me from so much while growing up in Southern California in the 60's and 70's. So I am thankful for it. When my husband came to Christ he wondered how I knew so much about the Bible already, yes, Catholics learn from it too
Since then I have attended BSF studies,and I appreciate their rule to not talk about what church we attend, but to just talk about the lesson in the Bible.
@crankycaregiver - hehe, you are probably right! And I never talk politics and I rarely talk religion but I felt like I needed to say this one so I just put it out there. I may be sorry later, but there you go!
@totallycherished - I do. I had in mind, Baptists and Lutherans/Catholics when I wrote it because that's mostly where my experience with the phrase comes from. I do see however, how it could be applicable in your world as well. I think there's a tendency to use that expression when one has encountered a church in which the rules are more important than grace. If I don't do, x, y, and z then this doesn't add up to faith. The reality, in Lutheranism, at least, is that we are saved by Grace, through faith. The repetitions and traditions are reminders, and ways to keep the truth of God's word in the forefront of your mind and actions. What saves you isn't what you DO, it's what was done for you and you do xy and z because you love God, and you're obedient to his word.
What I found frustrating was the common idea that Catholics, in particular, were not Christians because of a works salvation worldview, An idea which makes me crazy. Because just as many baptists and other denominations walk around in the works-salvation mindset too. It's like a whole group is prejudiced against another group because they are different and no one bothered to research what the differences were and why. I don't agree with all the teachings of the Catholic church, then again, I do agree with some. It was an unfair judgment to a whole denomination and like denominations based on preconceived ideas and often, incorrect information.
@ABAHM - Yes! I'm not Catholic but there is a lot of good, and a lot of history in Catholicism. People forget it is THE church that connects modern day Christianity to the early church. And the reason for all the repetition and learning was so that people would KNOW God's word and pass it down. It really does that! lol
@down_onthefarm - BAM is like my new thing to say. I say it all the time. I'm probably driving people as nuts with it as Thomas is with his constantly saying "Epic". Everything is EPIC now.
qudos.
ha ha I like your way with words. I think Gloria is right! Baptist churches were always my parents church of choice growing up, that and Messianic Congregations which don't even get me started
and of course now Baptist beliefs rub me the wrong way especially when it comes to Women leadership, Women teachers/pastors etc enough said 
We just go to a non-denominational church and I am and will remain confused 
ha ha obviously there are some wonderful baptist churches, baptist believers etc. My sister in law is Lutheran and I rather like their traditions.
I am well I don't know anymore...
Preach it, sister!
I like that,too. A relationship with our God.
I dont have either but i do belive in God Though:)
@Hunt4Truth - Thanks!
@Cluesy - I have lots of Baptist friends and family. We are the "weirdo" Lutherans now, hehe.
@Ancient_Scribe - I will!
There is SO much in here. I'm smiling, I'm nodding my head in agreement - I'm even singing hallelujah *wink*
"Christianity is both religion and relationship. But it’s not about either.
To say Christianity is not a religion is not only inaccurate; it
ignores Scripture and breaks congruity with billions of Christians from
around the world and through 2000 years of history.
To say Christianity is not a relationship ignores the many relational
words used to describe God and his people. He is our Father, and we are
his children. We know him. He speaks, and we listen. We are meant to
constantly relate to our personal God.
Whether it be religion, relationship, or some other expression of our
faith, faithful ministry doesn’t let anything threaten the central
place of the Gospel. We do not have the time or the luxury to major on
the minors. We are meant to be grounded in the life-giving roots of the
Gospel......................
Christianity is a religion. And it is a relationship. But it is not
(essentially, fundamentally, centrally) about either: it is about the
Gospel."
@aSeriesofFortunateEvents - EPIC is my favorite word!! One of the boys got a Ninja Turtle for Christmas that says it and it makes me smile every time.
@zanyzeal - I agree! And roundabout that was sort of my point. Having one of those doesn't preclude the other! And it's kind of mean to assume that because something is different from yours (aside from the gospel) that it's automatically wrong.
I think I get this. And I like your passion.
It kind of bugs me when I ask someone what denomination they are and they just say Christian. Because we like to place people, somehow. But that's not really the point of this post.
All that memorization sounds like a very good thing to me.
Me thinks someone touched a nerve with you, my friend.
I agree with you--my relationship with Abba is my religion--not all religions are like that though. I also think--okay know--that we Baptists have more repeition and traditions than we want to admit.
@stephensmustang - It was really a build up of hearing it over time . . .lol Sort of like how no matter how many times we have chili with beans, Steven will INSIST it's not chili, it's bean chowder, because technically chili isn't supposed to have any beans in it at all. Every stinking time I make it we have that conversation.
So it's like when people keep using that phrase I have to point out, yes, you do have a religion, you just want yours to be different than the norm. It's still a religion. I can't help myself. I have to point it out.
LOL
I really really like this. And yes, I'm super late to the party (again) because I'm trying to catch up on blogs since the holidays!
I love the way you view your traditions and repetitions. So many people are embaressed of those things, and end up swinging way left field then because of that. And unlike you, when asked about why they believe what they do, they have no answers. Having answers for believing what you do is HUGE! Even if people don't agree with you, they will still greatly respect you.
Thanks for the reminder that traditions and repetition aren't all wrong.
And yes, I'm with you about being tired of hearing the "I have a relationship, not a religion!"!!!!!!!
Very well written, Beth!
Good post. I hate when Christians say that also. The bible speaks of both true religion and false religion.
I'm guilty of the saying about relationship not religion too. I suppose it came about because so many have been tainted against the church or with the topic of religion -- and they couldn't separate the idea that God is not the same as the man-made church and doctrines followed by humans that still can be rather crappy, even if they are saved.
I went to a college that had a lot of Baptists in attendance (it wasn't a Bapt college, but had a very similar mission, etc). I know that my experience there (along with the local church) tainted my "relationship", when I know I should only have looked at the people who did things that weren't right... I think it's difficult for people to avoid lumping a negative experience together and assigning a stereotype to all people of that "type" (race, belief system, etc)
Very good, and thought-provoking, post!
okay. i've been meaning to get back to this post for WEEKS.
it would strike me at the oddest times~ like in the shower, or early in the morning, "oh.. beth's post i want to comment on!!"
i loved this because mainly - you just say how you feel.. even if it might provoke some controversy.
that's one of the biggest things that kind of bugs me about christians saying it's a "relationship" -
i get that. and agree. and have said it myself a hundred times..
but at the basis, not always, but sometimes i feel it's because we're all about trying to convince non christians how "unreligous" we are~ if that makes sense..?
like it's the hip thing to be all about Jesus, but not really the church - and yet, he's the one that established the church!
i actually think it's both. it's about a religion and a relationship. you can't have one without the other!
anyway. that's my very uneccesary 2 cents. but now i can shower in peace.
)
good thoughts though, beth. it makes us all sit up and think more..
@grace_to_be - Yes, it's both! I don't like when people think that having ritual excludes the relationship. It's like, when we put our kids to bed. At least, for us, we have a routine. There's tucking, and storytime and we say the same things every night and in the same order. Repeating all that doesn't mean it loses importance or that I don't love them, in fact, it reaffirms it. They know I love them because I DO the ritual with them. Religion IS your relationship with your creator. It's different than all your other relationships, that's why it gets its own word. LOL